Reply to “The Goal of Church Discipline: Repentance unto Restoration” #7

Hebrews 13:17 Greek/English Interlinear

Πείθεσθε τοῖς ἡγουμένοις ὑμῶν καὶ ὑπείκετε

Peithesthe tois hēgoumenois hymōn kai hypeikete (these link to concordance –biblehub.com)

3982 3588 2233 4771 2532 5226 (these link to definitions – biblehub.com)
BE-YE-beING-PERSUADED to-THE ones-LEADING OF-YOU(p) AND BE-YE-UNDER-SIMULATING

Mike Riccardi, “obey” is not there in the Greek of Hebrews 13:17. “Rule over” is not in Hebrews 13:17. Incredibly important Hebrews 13:17 says to imitate the ones leading – alive and asleep – consider Hebrews 13:7 (the end of their conversation) – consider Hebrews 11 (by faith Abraham). That last word, ὑπείκετε (hypeikete), has a single occurrence in the New Testament, here, and the word contains two roots to obtain it’s meaning:

hupo: by, under, about 5259

eikó: I am like, resemble 1503

So, Hebrews 13:17 does not not say in the Greek “submit yourselves”, rather it says to simulate the Godly ones going before.

At this link, there is images of the interlinear and details not covered in this comment that are highlyrelevant to this discourse:

Integrity of Greek to English Translation of Hebrews 13:17 (http://www.JesusDelivers.Faith/cw/osaohig/#Hebrews1317)

Also, you will find the “charge over” passages immediately following the Hebrews 13:17 examination at the above link, but, let’s visit 1 Thessalonians 5:12 from the Greek interlinear!

Ἐρωτῶμεν δὲ ὑμᾶς ἀδελφοί εἰδέναι τοὺς κοπιῶντας ἐν ὑμῖν καὶ προϊσταμένους ὑμῶν ἐν Κυρίῳ καὶ νουθετοῦντας ὑμᾶς

Erōtōmen de hymas adelphoi eidenai tous kopiōntas en hymin kai proistamenous hymōn en Kyriō kai nouthetountas hymas

2065 1161 4771 80 1492 3588 2872 1722 4771 2532 4291 4771 1722 2962 2532 3560 4771
WE-ARE-askING YET YOU(p) brothers TO-PERCEIVE THE ones-toilING IN YOU(p) AND BEFORE-STANDING OF-YOU(p) IN Master AND admonishING YOU(p)

Mike Riccardi, behold, “charge over” is not there in the Greek. What about this προϊσταμένους (proistamenous)? It means “properly, ‘pre-standing,’ referring to a pre-set (well-established) character which provides the needed model to direct others, i.e. to positively impact them by example.” That sounds remarkably similar to Hebrews 13:17 in the Greek.

For brevity, let’s take a gander at 1 Peter 5:3 in the YLT (which contains “charge” in the NASB): neither as exercising lordship over the heritages, but patterns becoming of the flock. “Charge” is not there, either. But, Mike Riccardi, not exercising lordship over Christ’s heritage IS there, and Jesus Christ said “they will become one flock with One Pastor” (John 10:16) in which the God of all eternity said that He is the One Pastor”.

Matthew 18, Reconciliation, and Forgiveness

Was Lord Jesus talking about accountability in Matthew 18? A synopsis of the sequence can help, but reading all of Matthew 18 would be far superior.

Matthew 18:1-6 Jesus addresses the desire to be great, and He said “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” (verse 3).

Matthew 18:7-11 Jesus transitions to include stumbling blocks, and He said “woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes” (verse 7).

Matthew 18:12-14 Jesus tells of recovering the stray sheep, and He said “So it is not [the] will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish” (verse 14).

Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus explains about reconciliation, and He said “tell it to the assembly; and if he refuses to listen even to the assembly, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector” (verse 17).

Matthew 18:18-20 Jesus talks about being bound, and He said “if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father” (verse 19). Hmm, Jesus said “done for them”. Look in the previous passage for the definition of the “them”. Jesus also said (in Matthew 6:15), “if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions”. Notice that King Jesus said “your” as in “not forgive your transgressions”. This is HIGHLY relevant here.

Matthew 18:21-35 Peter asks “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” (verse 21) to wit the Lord replies “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven” (verse 22) thus brilliantly expanding on His earlier explanation in verses 18-20 and earlier; furthermore, in this passage, the Loving Jesus compares the the kingdom of heaven to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves – there’s even a part of how a forgiven slave tried to lord it over another slave – that sounds like where the Lord started in Matthew 18:1.

So, if there is ANY accountability in Matthew 18, it is revealed clearly in the parable about a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves which is a picture of the children of God being accountable to King Jesus. God is love, and it is in this love that we children of God love one another and share with one another, but we are not accountable to each other, no, instead we are accountable to God, the One True Pastor Jesus.

APPLICABILITY TO DISCIPLINE AS YOU SAY IT IS DEFINED

The authority that you are fond of IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE.

If you delete this or any part of this comment, you do so at your own peril because God is watching us right now! This comment does much to express the vanity of “Ecclesiastical accountability is via ecclesiastical officers via normal ecclesiastical exercises and not compelled confessions” by Ed Dingess along with your support of that statement, Mike Riccardi.

If you say that I am wrong, then prove it in Scripture. I do want to hear a response from you. I want you to compare the Greek with the English and comment. I want to hear that you agree that Jesus is the One Pastor according to the Word of God!

You stand in accusation of me for a “false dichotomy” as well as you stating in not so many words that I am a fool. Yet, I keep saying that the Lord Jesus works through His Assembly for His glory; in other words, each of the children of God do the will of the Father in heaven because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. You made your assertion after I wrote that it is all about the Lord Jesus’ glory. I do say that the Church is not an equivalent term to the Assembly of God (not referring to the denomination), but that much broader topic is covered extensively at http://JesusDelivers.Faith/ .

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